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May 11, 2010

71

why death?

by Andrea O'Connell

The death penalty.

It is a terrible topic.

Our current laws in certain states, Florida is one of them, require human beings to have the responsibility of pronouncing and performing murder of another human being to maintain civil and social laws.

When so many in a society thwart the law and maim and kill, what can we do to cure those who murder?  Well, we murder them, that’s how.

Does murder of one to pay for the murder of another work?

Of course, in a civil society we protect innocent civilians potentially in the path of a murderer as soon as we learn of their potential for murder, or their conviction of murder.  But, must we kill, too?

Is it not a sort of freedom for the criminal when we kill them?   Can we not put them away and out of reach and let them live out the rest of their miserable lives in their own private hell?   Does not that make more sense?

If we knew how to save criminal people from themselves – from going to that place in their heads where crime is like a walk next door…. if we could stop one person from taking that path, this discussion would be moot.

When you look at our society in its gritty realism, it seems a delicate balance between depravity (evil) on one end;  apathy in the middle, and loving-ness (a heart free of judgment and prejudice) on the other end.  It is a constant struggle for balance.  So too do the scales of justice struggle.

Apathy shouldn’t be the fulcrum.

Has our society evolved in such a way that it has become socially acceptable to be apathetic about death?

Jails and prisons, though we think of them as “corrections” they hardly practice that aspect and the prisoner experience often mirrors the depravity the prisoner left on the street.

I don’t feel it is up to us to “fix” the murderer and then set them free in death. The murderer must take responsibility, if proven to be such, and live the rest of their days in confinement.

It is my fervent hope that the murderer will die of old age or of natural causes.  Living in a state of perpetually begging for forgiveness to whomever they believe their God to be.

That is enough. Isn’t it?

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71 Comments Post a comment
  1. auntdeedee
    May 11 2010

    I believe it should be enough. I also believe that the death penalty is not murder but justice served, only in rare cases. Like I said in the other post, the death penalty should only be given where there are at least two witnesses to the murder. That way, there isn’t so much as a shadow of a doubt that the one who took a life, or lives, is the one to have his/her life taken.

    The judicial system does need to reform the DP part of its sentencing. It needs to be so rare that apathy never happens when its carried out. It should be so rare that everyone will feel it in their heart to pity and pray for the very soul of the condemned. There needs to be no satisfaction in the death of a convicted murderer, meaning no cheers for it finally being done.

    We need to get back to where the victim’s life is sacred, and the one who played God with the victim’s life pays the just penalty for it.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 11 2010

      Plus, it has been determined that the use of the death penalty has also been incorrectly used against wrongly convicted people in the past and in this current day and age. Because of so many prosecution acts which have proven to be incorrect, the process of holding the position of a prosecutor as an elected position may have to be reviewed once again before the prosecution, as a whole, kill anymore innocent victims. 🙂

      Reply
      • Andrea
        May 12 2010

        Hi Michelle,
        Yes, it is a terrible burden to think that the death penalty could be used on the wrong person….

        My brother is a criminal defense attorney, and so I tend to see the defense side of an argument differently (hopefully with some clarity) and I know that the innocent are often wrongly accused. However, it is my opinion (though I have seen nothing from the defense) that Casey is responsible, I would be loathe to see her be put to death.

        The state has the burden of proof, as you know. If the state cannot produce a case that dispels reasonable doubt, so be it – that is our system, and there is none better.

        I am fascinated by this case because of all the info that exists, thanks to the liberal public records law in Florida…. Having reviewed only the LE documents, it seems to me that Casey has an uphill battle and if the law prevails, I think the case against Casey is strong, despite any LE mistakes, she saw Caylee last, from all accounts, did not report her missing for 31 days, has told multiple untruths and stories to LE, and did everything she could to deceive. What mother refuses to get involved in a search for her own child?

      • michellefrommadison
        May 12 2010

        I have read so much for so long on this case that I have come to a conclusion that says that without a higher-education in both Law and Psychology, one cannot fully understand many of the aspects of this case. I see countless blogs and comments from people that feel the same way you do, but from what I have investigated, that mind-set comes primarily from those without those upper-degrees and licenses and that clearly poses a struggle for those folks. And, it is too complex to try to explain to a lay-person in a few sentences, all one can do is to lead them to actually educate themselves to help them to learn what they can not see on their own at this point in time. I suspect there will be a lot of people needing therapy and additional treatments after this trial concludes, and the population will see an influx of needed services to those that believe, right now, that Casey is guilty of first-degree murder of Caylee. For me, the facts do not point towards that conclusion, as is the same for all the Experts that have studied this case also. But, it’s alright to be incorrect, you have a right to that opinion. Just be aware you may feel some distrust of the system if the jury votes otherwise.

      • auntdeedee
        May 13 2010

        That’s right, MFM! That’s why, if it must be a punishment for murder, there has to be two or more witnesses to prevent that. And this still should be a case by case basis even so.

    • Andrea
      May 11 2010

      Hi again, Aunt deedee…..

      Yes, it would be justice for some victims to know that the person who killed their loved one is no longer enjoying life.

      Still, I think the death penalty is not a penalty at all but a freedom for the accused/convicted.

      Your stipulation of two witnesses does ease the mind a bit, but in truth, it’s still dicey.

      If there are two witnesses, that’s problematic, too. Why didn’t those two witnesses stop the murder? Were they complicit?

      And… They could be raised as “reasonable doubt” to a clever defense attorney. Look at Kronk. He was not even a witness, yet he’s being placed at the scene of the crime. Imagine if he were a witness? Imagine what OJ’s lawyers would have done if Kato Calin (sp) saw the murder? Kato would be in jail, too.

      There is no easy answer, is there? But, you said it all:

      “It should be so rare that everyone will feel it in their heart to pity and pray for the very soul of the condemned. There needs to be no satisfaction in the death of a convicted murderer, meaning no cheers for it finally being done.”

      Thank you so much….I do agree wholeheartedly.

      Reply
      • michellefrommadison
        May 11 2010

        Andrea, your perspective that the death penalty is not a penalty at all but a freedom for the accused/convicted is awesome. Thanks, I never thought of it in that manner.

  2. Boston
    May 12 2010

    In Florida if one is convicted of killing a child under 12 and the aggravating circumstances (possibly HACs) than jurors can suggest death or Life without the possibility of parole.

    But when we look outside the legal meaning we can approach the death penalty from a moral, religious and philisophical perspective. The death penalty is a right to life issue. Abortion is also a right to life issue. Some think it is illegal to take a life at conception yet would sentence someone to death by lethal injection. Secular humanist find no dichotomy in this thought process.

    I will just state for the record that I do not, under any circumstances, think the death penalty solves anything-it certainly doesn’t bring closure for those who are left behind to grieve for their loved one.
    Many folks who have witnessed a death or were aware of the preparations for the death of the accused experience lifelong trauma. They feel enormous guilt and suffer emotionally for years.

    Kent Whitiker had a son Bart who was clearly a psychopath with a well established but ignored mental defect. His mother knew for years that he was a glib, superficial liar and manipulator.

    Mr Whitiker wrote, Murder by Family in an effort to come to forgiveness. In so doing he is giving his son the opportunity to seek redemption. He does not want to see his son put to death even though Bart killed his moter and brother.

    Forgiveness allowed Mr Whitiker to reclaim his life. A book worth reading.

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=7461122?page=1

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      Hi Boston!

      I agree it’s a right to life issue. Thank you for reminding me of that aspect – I have long believed that, too. It’s quite odd that the “hysterical fringe-right to lifers” would kill doctors to save a 6 week fetus from a mother who, for reasons personal to her, cannot raise a child at this time in her life.

      The fact that someone could tell me what to do with my body, because I happen to be a woman, is something I struggle with.

      Anyway, that’s a discussion for another day and time; but, thank you for discussing this dichotomy, Boston.

      I cannot imagine having to witness death by lethal injection. How does one go on living with any modicum of peace after such an experience? Like you point out, they inevitably suffer trauma for years to come.

      Forgiveness is the most gratifying and noble gift that anyone can give to another. Remember a few years ago the killing in the Amish school? What noble and loving people to have suffered such a great loss, such a profound and atrocious act they were witness to, and yet they forgave. They prayed for the murderer!

      We cannot all be as loving and forgiving as the Amish, or like Kent Whitiker….but I have the highest esteem for people who will forgive. Often people who forgive these terrible atrocities do experience a lightness of being from the weight of the great burden being lifted. Surely, forgiver still suffers, but forgiveness is a great buffer when the heart is so heavy with missing loved ones.

      I do want to read this book, and I will. What a generous man – to give his son redemption through his forgiveness.

      Amazing story, thank you so much for sharing all of this, my friend.

      Reply
      • michellefrommadison
        May 12 2010

        And, don’t forget the countless numbers of victims the criminal justice system put to death, only to find out afterwards that they never even committed the crime they were convicted of, even with some of them making admissions of guilt to the crime. Verdicts are often supplied by uneducated and uninformed jurors, and the sentences are simply the actions of the Judges with limited options on sentencing. It is the jury system that appears to be the bulk of the problems in the guilt or not guilty phase of the courts, and an obvious change must be mandated to spare more non-guilty victims from further harm. The easiest positive change to upgrading and potentially validating a better system of Justice would be, imo, to require all jurors to have at least three degrees from an accredited University or post-grad confirmation status. I believe those people have earned the ability to be better prepared to analysis the perspectives from both the prosecution-side and the defense-side. Beneath multi-degrees of jurors, it’s a hit-n-miss call with too much probability on the side of media-influenced people that often have delusional-aspects in their own lives from continued disappointments about their own life- successes and they tend to transfer that ignorance onto others to make themselves feel better and more intelligent than they really are in real life.

      • auntdeedee
        May 13 2010

        Here is why Right to Lifers can be against abortion and not the DP~one is an innocent victim who has done no wrong and the other is guilty of a heinous crime. One cannot compare an unborn child to a convicted criminal who took the right of life of another as being the same. It is quite different.

        Unless, ofcourse, one is a humanist.

      • Andrea
        May 13 2010

        Hi Aunt Deedee, yup, that’s very true except in cases in which the poor soul on death row isactually innocent, or is forgiven, or repents, and pays for his or her sins all the rest of their life in confinement.

        I can’t even imagine how many we have killed via lethal injection prior to DNA testing. I am certain that there were too many to comprehend.

        The unborn child has no say in the matter, you’re right. they are the epitome of innocence. I just think it hypocritical of folks to kill doctors to save a fetus in a body that is not their own.

        It’s such a tough topic. My own views are that I do not want anyone telling me what to do with my body.

        Anyway, this is surely a topic for a whole separate post!

        Dee, maybe we could collaborate on a post? Wouldn’t that be fun!

      • auntdeedee
        May 13 2010

        Andrea, my post in answer to you will be above your comment?

        Yes, for the DP, I believe their must be two eye-witnesses to the murder before its even a thought to be on the table. That will ensure that innocent people do not face the death penalty.

        As far as one who repents and is forgiven, the consequences do not go away. If God forgives the repentant soul then the payment has been made in full by Jesus Christ, if that is the repentant’s belief, so there is no more payment for the sin just the consequences to be paid in the eyes of the law.

        As far as the nutcases that call themselves christians and yet murder abortion doctors, Jesus said that many would do things in His name as if doing Him a service, but Jesus said they do not.

        I’m pretty much a women’s rights advocate from way back and the one thought I keep in the back of my head is this: how many women have had their rights taken from them while in the womb?

        I would love to collaberate with you on a post-but, aren’t we testing our friendship? J/K~lol

        {hugs}

  3. Sam
    May 12 2010

    Hate the sin not the sinner.

    Reply
  4. Boston
    May 12 2010

    The link above is no longer available. I’ll try this one:
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-160223762/whitaker-admits-guilt-killings.html

    Reply
  5. jon
    May 12 2010

    I still think Casey should spend the next 50-60 years in prison being miserable. However, there is something about me that enjoys the thought of her crappign her pants in fear of the death penalty. I keep hoping that with the new no-nonsense judge that as the trial draws nearer and she realizes the DP is a reality she might relent and own up to what she’s done and hope they give her life w/o parole. If you confess are you still eligible for the needle or old sparky? I don’t think so. Of course, it would also be far less a burden on tax payers if we don’t have to pay the costs of a trial but since when have other peoples finances been a matter of concern to Casey?

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      What I have found so far is that the same people that want Casey to confess are the same people that say Casey is a liar. Totally hypocritical that appears to be derived from an ignorance on their part of both Law and of Psychology. And, the same people that believe this is a no nonsense Judge that will be fair and impartial made the same comments on the ousted Judge before. Again, a pure lack of understanding on their part again.

      Reply
  6. weezie10
    May 12 2010

    OMG; I have only read to the first posting by Michelle from Madison. You hopefully aren’t serious about your hollier than though intelligence about Casey’s innocence are YOU? If anyone needs therapy, I won’t even say it. How dare you put others down and hold yourself so high above the grade, including yourself with:
    “For me, the facts do not point towards that conclusion, as is the same for all the Experts that have studied this case also”. Are you saying that the “Experts” who have given depostions to the State are wrong? That they are misinformed, unintelligent?” Your claim of Experts must be people I am unaware of. Who do you mean, state names. Experts are what they are: Someone who has been in a profession for a good length of time, who have done case studies, testified in court, written papers on special assignments etc. I do not think you are at that level, excuse me.

    You are right about one thing. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Secondly, you are assuming that there are a lot of sickos or about to be sickos who will need treatment at the end of the trial, or god forbid a plea. Are you Psychic?
    The Anthony case has built a huge following because the media has made it so. No media, no coverage, no interest period. It is the nature of Reality TV, that has consumed the average person to follow events of people who are not play acting. Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, Jane Valez Mitchell, Nancy Grace (your favourite subject), Geraldo, HLN,CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and all the other news outlets in the world are following this case. WHY? Because it sells, and if it makes money for the news agencies, new special interest shows, it will get covered. Sadly this is the North American fixation and it’s due to boredom. Until a person can create their own reality and be happy to live in it, there will always be fascination with cases like this one. In Canada, there is no such thing as t.v. in the courtrooms. This new wave t.v watching has led to mob public reactions, where given the same trial in England or Canada, yes there would be coverage, but outside the courtroom. We would be relying on journalists to report what was allowed to be reported.
    In CASE: BERNARDO/HOMOLKA versus Petitioners. There was a great deal that was never given to the public, even though the press fought for it. It was in our newspapers every day, atleast 6 pages, from the day they discovered the first young girl’s remains in cement blocks, to the second found in a deep woods. Both were held hostage, repeatedly raped and murdered, “THROWN AWAY LIKE TRASH”, (I thank NG for that constant). It took the Police force and detectives 1 1/2 years to link these disappearances to the two deadly twosome. Yes, the public was riveted, angry, sad and obsessed. What did happen; Homolka was given a present from the Prosecution in order to get Bernardo. Eye for an eye. Her sentence, 12 years, out in 7! The public is still hurting and angry about the injustice of that outcome. Homolka is free and in fact married with a child. She is a child molester and killer – and FREE.

    Noone is going to commit suicide or need mental help because of the Anthony outcome. Once the verdict is finished, people will move on to another fascination. These very public high powered cases come every few years, and the following gets larger due to the internet, utube, facebook etc. A lot of us are quaterbacking our way through, trying to understand such a heinous outcome. We all know one thing Michelle. Caylee didn’t commit suicide, she didn’t die accidentely. This is murder in the first degree. It’s not even a coverup of an accident. We all know she could have been easily put in the family pool face down and found. No, there was a coverup of death and then a coverup of hiding the body. There was cruel and intentional murder. To debate that Casey was afraid to admit to her parents that she had accidentaly killed Caylee is prepostereous, and the Defence are not contending that either. They are going for complete innocence, throwing blame whereever it will stick. That is what angers people the most. If Casey took a plea we would be blogging about another case.

    I hate lectures from people who think they know it all. Don’t you hate my theory too? We all have them, whether they make sense or not. It’s ours to decide and not others to make mockery of it.

    thanks everyone you can bitch to me if you want but I won’t tolerate being told I am dumb, even if she didn’t really mean it to me personally, I am taking it that way.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      Hey Weezie,

      Boy, I love reading your posts…. you are so thorough and you sure do know your facts! 🙂

      And, Weezie….please know you are welcome to say anything under the sun here. I hope you won’t take it personally, I don’t. But it does bother me and it’s not fair to those of us who apply thoughtful deliberation and are careful not to annoy or put down anyone.

      I totally agree with you about the “selling” aspect, Weezie…that’s the long and the short of this case. It’s the media coverage from the very beginning that drove the interest in this case. I mean, when you have a beautiful little girl, a young & attractive mother who wouldn’t know the truth if it was written on her nose, and grandparents who are not afraid of the media, and who blatantly court the press; They (C & G) raise hell with hammers flying and hoses spraying water at the madding crowds and the Media eats it up… it sells, just as you mention – it still sells in Orlando. Every news outlet online has a “Casey Anthony” link on the front page of their site.

      Casey has her parents to blame (in my opinion) for the media attention – Cindy Anthony was relentless about creating drama and supporting the lies and seemed to deceive at every step, just like her daughter.

      But, it’s not only the media coverage that drives and interests those of us who enjoy putting this puzzle together – we like the law, we like to investigate things, we like conversation, and we enjoy the opportunity to share in dialog with people like you Weezie, and Boston, AuntDeeDee, Ideas, Hilde, Kitt, KnightOwl, Jon, Molly, and so many more kind friends who visit us.

      Perhaps Michelle from Madison is trying to upset some of us? Well, it won’t work – we all are very well schooled on the facts as a result of the liberal records law in Florida, we can find an answer via the internet in pretty short order.

      We all bring different things to this table – about this case, thankfully. We are also aware that we are not the finders of fact in this case – the jury will be when they hear the facts. But, we are sharing our opinion and appreciating the opinion of other people, too. It’s pretty simple, pretty basic, but that’s what we do with appreciation for all people.

      Reply
      • michellefrommadison
        May 12 2010

        Not trying to upset anyone as you claim Andrea. I am only bring proven facts and a perspective that
        some people may not have validated to being factual yet. And, ditto on the rest. Thanks for the opportunity too to enlighten others less fortunate. 🙂

      • Andrea
        May 12 2010

        Hi Michelle:
        If you have facts to prove, I’d love to know what they are. I am open to any point of view here, truly I am. But, if your just making empty statements, it’s not constructive.

        I wonder what “experts” you’re speaking of? Would you kindly provide us with some details regarding what you’re referring to? You’re making a lot of generalizations when you say “experts” and “facts” and refer to people who are less fortunate.

        I would enjoy being enlightened. I would like you to disprove any facts of any aspect of the case and we’ll agree or disagree, but we won’t engage in insults.

        I don’t think we’ve heard too much about expert testimony in this case other than the references about the individuals Baez found from TES like Joe Jordon, et al, who “claim” to have searched the site. But, these people are not experts – not in the least.
        An expert is a person who is peer-reviewed on a topic like DNA (usually one who has been published, I believe), or a doctor or Ph.D. with credentials and who has testified in the past on the subject….
        I know the defense has Dr. Lee, Dr. Baden and some others, but I don’t trust Dr. Lee anymore. And I’m not sure I like Baden either. Dr. Lee was “clever” in the OJ trial, but he’s sold out.
        I heard someone say, or read somewhere that Dr. Lee would testify for a box of oranges…. In other words, he is not in this for the money, which is noble, on its face, but that’s not entirely it for him, I don’t think. No, Dr. Lee likes the media. Dr. Lee likes controversy. Any expert can take any fact and twist it to fit an outcome that favors the defense – that’s what they do.

        Frankly, some of them can be experts at deception.

        It is so easy to spot those types – the ones who get a bit agitated when the prosecution tries to get them to see another aspect, or another way of looking at something…when they refuse to acknowledge the obvious but opposite point of view, I lose all respect. I lose respect for any witness – defense or prosecution – who appears to run from the truth of the matter, preferring to stick to how one side or the other sees things….

        That’s my soap-box for today, LOL!

  7. weezie10
    May 12 2010

    Now that I got that off my chest, the DP. It does not exist in Canada anymore. We have had our share of violent, sadistic, serial murders for which there were unanimous verdicts. There were also crimes of murder where the convicted were released due to new evidence to support their innocence. I therefore do not believe in the death penalty no matter what. It goes against my moral thoughts. Eye for an eye is biblical in it’s writings but if you really think about it, that is not what Jesus stood for, nor God. Those writings were done by followers of Christ, so their interpretation of history is based on what happened during biblical times. Surely we should strive to uphold a more virtuous respect for life, no matter the pain of the event. However, our leaders who struck Iraq, used lies to cover the truth of their revenge for 911. We must change our way of thinking and respecting human life or we will return to barberism again.
    What always muses me. Life should mean life, not 25 years with no possibility of parole. What happens at year 25? The family, friends must attend the parole hearing and go through hell all over again, fighting to keep the murderer behind bars for another couple of years and then again and again. That is costly for the victims. I hate that part about our system. LIFE SHOULD MEAN LIFE, throw away the key. For those who think that you can find God behind bars, well you are right. That’s all that’s left for them. However, that doesn’t mean they should be paroled because God has changed them. Once a killer, always a killer. There is no redemption in the heart or soul and that is what would scare a person from criminal murder, if they knew their was no second chances or third ones. The appeal process has gone too far. It is so costly, that plea bargains are made all the time. So the killers still have many options and they know it. Death is not feared by those who are so angry with life and are too weak to take their own. Instead they take their anger out on someone they love, usually. Of course there are the really sick minds that kill strangers, and pedophiles who step up their game to kill their young witnesses. There are gang murders, and of course there is accidental murder.
    Andrea, I agree about the witness thing. Murderers rarely kill anyone in front of someone unless they are the mob. It is done secretly, behind closed doors, in the woods, in the mountains, anywhere but within eye shot of a witness. We rely on 12 jurors to decide by the evidence given before them, whether it is heinous, attrochious and cruel. In the Anthony case that is the burder of the State. It appears they are not backing down. I think we are all in for a load of things not yet released. They are confident and in the end, of it can be proven, Casey will pay, either by life or death. I have no doubt of that. I happen to want her behind bars, no parole.

    Reply
  8. Boston
    May 12 2010

    Weezie-You are a long time follower of this case and you know your stuff inside and out. For someone to say that Ms Anthony is wrongly charged or is sitting in the Orlando County Jail an innocent person is simply unwilling and unable to come to an understanding of what punishment is.

    14,000 pages of discovery says a lot but for some it is never enough. mfm says things but he doesn;t always say them with a civility that Andrea’s Blog is known for. We’ll have to help him come around to understanding that although we are all nameless and faceless people, respect and a clarity of thought is always the way to act towards one another.

    Yesterday Ms Lyon set the stage for the possibility that Ms Anthony would receive a conviction and be remanded to prison for the rest of her life or receive the death penalty.
    Like you Weezie, I have no interest in seeing people put to death. I had true sadness for Casey yesterday-the pain and suffering of her parents and grandparents, uncles and aunts must be horrific. Unfortunately Mrs Anthony never could bring herself to punish Casey and sadly after years of aggressive and oppositional behavior, stealing, lying and manipulating everyone who came into her crazy world, it is now pay back time. Casey will more than likely loose her freedom for the rest of her natural life.

    It’s better than having to ask George and Cindy Anthony to go into the death chamber and comfort her while she takes her last breath. No parent should ever be asked to do that.

    Reply
  9. Ideas
    May 12 2010

    I don’t think death sets anyone free in a good sense. Those unrepentant who haven’t made peace with their maker, have the final judgment to face and then eternal torture. They are ultimately accountable.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      Hi Ideas,

      I totally agree with you…. it surely not in a good sense – not at all. No, like you say, they must be accountable for the act(s) done here on earth as well as in the beyond.

      I sure do appreciate that you’ve clarified that!!!! 🙂

      Reply
  10. michellefrommadison
    May 12 2010

    Yes Andrea of May 12, 2010 at 7:42 pm, I do have facts to prove any statements or comments I have ever made. The only thing I won’t do is to spoon-feed lazy people who choose to reject proven facts instead of validating the facts they question. I have learned long long ago that enabling weak people serves no benefit to them, it only makes them more weak. But, yes, there is validation to everything I have stated here or anywhere regarding the proven facts I have commented on.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      okay, Michelle. I am glad you have the facts in your possession….that is good.

      But, are you not of the opinion that weak people should be supported and guided with a loving and caring shoulder to lean on? When one is weak, it is wise and loving to provide support.

      If you would care to teach us here, you are most welcome to do so but only if you do so in kindness… 🙂

      I have not memorized all the facts in this case, but that does not mean I am lazy. I have advanced degrees, but that does not mean I am smarter than anyone else, or more clever.

      I love to be spoon-fed information from my friends here and I welcome as gentle teachers those who take the time to comment here. They honor me and all of us with their comments.

      Our friends here are wise and learn-ed and I want to be sure they are respected at all costs.

      Disagree, but do so with respect and we’ll all be great friends.

      Reply
      • michellefrommadison
        May 12 2010

        Andrea, weak people should be supported and guided with a loving hand, kindness, and a caring shoulder which I have always done. While some who are not as well-educated or have as much experience in both Law and Psychology as I do, they could possibly interpret my comments to the contrary, but that only validates the points I have been making about how uninformed people should be mandated to pass a test on each level of the internet blogging world to identify which group might be more suitable to their own designated intelligence quota to limit the denials and arguing that most uninformed people do when confronted with proven facts that do not fully understand. I’ll send you a copy of the book I am a part of creating after it gets printed. While I am only a contributor, and can not go into too much detail at this point right now about it, but I can say you are now a part of it and I’ll send you a copy to the IP-address-owner listed under. from the information I have been supplied so far, I do believe you will really love the books and I expect they will be right on-top of the nest selling lists soon. Projected date as of last month was the summer of 2011.

  11. Venice
    May 12 2010

    michellefrommadison LOL!

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      Thank you so very much Venice for proving my points again without me having to even offer a full response to your comment. 🙂

      Reply
  12. weezie10
    May 12 2010

    I will say one thing for Michelle from Madison, she/he sparked a heavy debate. You took the spotlight off of DP and made it about yourself and the higharchy of education, intelligence and the right to change the law so that jurors are of the highest educational values. Are you kidding me? Why do you propose these preposterous leanings? Your constitutional laws have set forth that a panel of 12 common people will deliberate the facts set out before them, following guidelines by the judge. These are based on the judicial understanding of the law at the present time of the trial. If for some reason the law is tested at the Supreme Court level, and is overturned then the next person who is on trial might be awarded a better set of guidelines. That is how the law works. It is not about who should be the triar of facts. If you are an American you should be happy and respectfull that your system gives so much latitude towards the convictor. Certainly it would not be of benefit to live in a country that does not regard the convicted as guilty from the start. It may appear that way because of the public outcry in this case, but we all should hold our tempers, our rational thoughts and be eternally grateful when 12 people will give up maybe 3 – 4 months of their personal lives to hear and deliberate on this case. Would you? without prejudice? I think Michelle you should try to be more respectfull of the common human that walks this earth. I give you credit for trying to embuke argumentative debate, but I abhore it when it is done delibertaly to inflame those who you want to get at most. “the ignorant and uninformed society”. Please stop this banter of yours. It’s so unbecoming.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      Thanks Weezie for agreeing with me about the need to change the jury system to an only highly-educated jury system. The less-educated jury system has wrongly incarcerated far too many innocent victims whether or not they pleaded guilty but were later found to be innocent. Yes, the current non-multi-degreed jury system should be trashed, time to start over on that subject.

      Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      Weezie, you are brilliant. Period.

      Thank you, my friend.

      Reply
  13. May 12 2010

    I could not agree more. A quick, state sponsored death is to kind for a person who deserves to die. Better that they spend the rest of thire years thinking about death, dreading their death, wondering when it will come. Those years of wondering will be as close as a murderer will ever come to the seconds of pain that a murdered person experiences.

    Reply
    • weezie10
      May 12 2010

      Richard Hornsby; I presume you are not being used by another person to submit this comment. I would hope you had a clearer thought about this but maybe I thought all along you would not be visiting sites but would only respond to those that visited yours. Am I wrong here? If this is really you, I respect that thought. hmmmmm ……

      Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      Ditto Richard. 🙂

      Reply
    • Andrea
      May 12 2010

      Oh my goodness, Please forgive me for groveling; but I am honored that you visited my blog, Richard.

      I am not in the least bit surprised that you share the view that the death penalty is wrong and far to kind for the convicted; is far too expensive for the community that does not deserve that burden, especially now given the economic climate we find ourselves in.

      I want the convicted to feel what s/he has done, but I have lived long enough to know that the sociopaths will rarely go there, preferring to place the blame on the victim, or anyone convenient.

      Even so, i understand that despite the passionate arguments Ms. Lyon and Ms Rappaport, the witness in the Casey Anthony case, gave, the Judge had to follow the law as designed – sadly.

      Still, there is hope here – there may be a jury of 12 who will see the madness and the sadness and the futility.

      Thank you again for visiting….

      Reply
  14. weezie10
    May 12 2010

    Michelle, again you inflame. I did not agree with you and I guess you are just bored and playing. I am done with your stupidity. The only change I will make from my last post, which was a typo is:

    “Certainly it would not be of benefit to live in a country that does not regard the convicted as guilty from the start. ” I meant “that does” regard the guilty as, convicted from the start.

    I hope there is someone out there that can transform this shallow idea of yours from the smallness you make it. Be grateful you have the freedoms honoured to you as an American citizen, and stop bantering about what is wrong with it. You have a lot to learn my dear. You really make people throughout the world wonder about Americans just by your brevity of privledge. I must be a very tolerant person to respond to you because I will never give up my principles for yours.

    Sorry if I am being overboard here folks. I have to say what I feel, isn’t that grand. FREEDOM.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      I did not inflame anyone as you claim. I just responded to the comment, that is what you yourself asked for. I have no shallow ideas as you also claim, rather am paid huge bucks to inform uneducated and uninformed people of things they may not be truly and may be inadequately aware of for their own well-being. Perhaps after a good education, if you ever complete an adequate one, you will see the errors in your ways and seek some assistance through counseling or other treatment options, possibly medications might assist you in your troubles. Try not to attack those who are better-informed than yourself, and try, instead, to actually learn where you are going astray all the time. Best of luck to you and God Bless.

      Reply
  15. weezie10
    May 12 2010

    Michelle. ROTFLMBO.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      Not sure what your coding is, but if it is of a negative connotation, it proves my points once again. And, if it happens to be positive, Thank you and no charge, but donations to the victims rights groups are always welcomed. 🙂

      Reply
  16. Linda
    May 12 2010

    weezie10

    Slap Michelle in the back………she seems to be stuck in repeat mode…….

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 12 2010

      Sorry Linda but I have only answered questions and posed potential solutions to problems some viewers still have. If I repeated anything, you should direct your frustration to the people asking questions, not the one providing potential solutions to their problems. But, you are not alone in your rantings. Many uninformed people act identical to what you just did. There is help available to all of you out there, just don’t continue to badger them, there Linda, they are hurting from being uninformed to the actual case facts.

      Reply
  17. weezie10
    May 13 2010

    Michelle: Either you are an addiction or plainly obsessed with yourself importance. You have never ever stated any facts to back up your statements. You make it sound like you are in the know of the case, that you are holding information that only you know, and that you are predicting an innocence for the defendenant – Casey Anthony. You have such gaul, audacity if you know that means, and you strike everyone in your path. Are you for real? The only help that should be dealt is for your mental well being. You slander and castrate anyone who will actually give you breathing room with your comments. You have moved yourself around the blog world and Word Press, knowing that you have but moments to make your case heard. You insight anger to its’ members and then strike your daggers to make it more interesting to YOU. I’m sorry for your boring life and what you represent. I have never been this angry in my life about a blogger until you. I pity your sorry mind and hope that you disappear as quickly as you arrived. That’s up to you and the owner of this site. We will see who lasts.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 13 2010

      No,Weezie10, I am just a person who seeks Justice for victims, and I try to teach others along the way of issues related to many different types of cases. Sorry to correct you on your continued errors, but I am here to help the uninformed and those so far off the deep-end in denials like yourself. I only try to prevent themselves, like you Weezie10, from facing proven facts that seem to shatter their (your) current way of delusions of certain cases. But, thanks for your support. Be sure to buy some books too when they come out; expected release-date likely in the summer of 2011 or possibly 2012 (not sure yet), and you be will included some of them. The book series already has 47 pages devoted just to you in it‘s uncompleted phase, so far. Has to do with the psychology, the psychiatry, and the mental dysfunctions of internet bloggers who attack fact-providers and conduct actions known as ranting and trolling, and exemplifies the need for state-mandated treatment programs to assist them. A copy will also be sent to your IP-owners-mailing-address, but feedback is always appreciated. Once you see your name and info in a hardcopy print, perhaps you might gain some sales from co-workers, children’s or grandkids schools, family, friends, relatives, and your therapists. All proceeds benefit Victim’s Right groups. Thanks again and by all means, please continue, your unfounded rants and your attacks against others are always welcomed anywhere on the internet. thanks again Weezie10.

      Reply
      • auntdeedee
        May 13 2010

        MFM says:
        I am just a person who seeks Justice for victims, and I try to teach others along the way of issues related to many different types of cases.

        And then she says:
        I do have facts to prove any statements or comments I have ever made. The only thing I won’t do is to spoon-feed lazy people who choose to reject proven facts instead of validating the facts they question. I have learned long long ago that enabling weak people serves no benefit to them, it only makes them more weak. But, yes, there is validation to everything I have

        OK…that is contradictory, no? How do you teach if you do not share your educated opinions and facts? Who are you to judge who is lazy and needs to be spoon-fed? Perhaps it is you who is lazy in that you don’t wish to take the time to write out your fact-filled comments with your experts’ testimony to the evidence?

        MFM, you have noting but a desire to make yourself appear more intelligent than you really are. Your comments are always the same on this case (and another one-the Drew Peterson case), of little substance, and always done in a condescending tone. You fool no one.

  18. lily0lily
    May 13 2010

    Well I am anti-death penalty but I have to say I my mind is in a twisted mess by the abrupt turnabout in the tone and syntax of ‘michellefrommadison’. I feel a scam coming on in the form of bringing in readers in order to do the dance called the bi-polar slam on everything Nancy Grace.

    I’m no Nancy Grace fan – but seriously???? This is a parallel reality or the twilight zone or more likely this is a setup.

    Do your googling people – you will be better informed.

    Reply
  19. lily0lily
    May 13 2010

    Google is used these days as a reference to search engines and there are much better ones than Microsoft’s Bing, Google or Yahoo. In fact I’ve suddenly become interested in a goalie from Michigan that plays roller hockey. Sound familiar?

    Wow.

    Reply
    • michellefrommadison
      May 13 2010

      Yes, Google and search all of them, all the search engines because there are hundreds of thousands that recognize michellefrommadison if you use all three words together. And, some of them contribute to some of the Victim’s Right’s Agencies, well most of them that are affiliated. So, help the victims, and search for michellefrommadison. Keep all three words together. Thanks for your support, and God Bless you too for searching. There are two-hundred-twenty-nine hits just from tonight already with $898,00 dollars contributed just tonight. Thank you so much for your help to help real victims. Super-much appreciated. But don’t stop searching, not just today or this week, search every single day and be sure to mark your calendar as a reminder to not stop searching, search each and every day. A special thanks to lilyolily who’s IP-address has already been identified as a searcher. Thanks lil. And, Thanks to everyone who takes the time to support the cause for victim’s Rights. God Bless you all, and thanks!

      Reply
  20. lily0lily
    May 13 2010

    Oh whatever, blah blah blah. What a crock of crap.

    And the search engines I use – don’t put a dime in anyone’s pocket dude pretending to be a lady. And with Google’s “pay per click” averaging less than a penny per click – nobody’s getting rich. Enjoy your fantasy world Mr. B. Hope you’re not depending on the click rates to pay for your meds. Why don’t you just come out and say who you are and what your real agenda is and get this over with???

    Reply
  21. lily0lily
    May 13 2010

    Well, you’re welcome. For what? I’m not sure.

    And I’d also like to thank you for showing your usual predictable behavior when backed into a corner by your own dishonesty and dead giveaway syntax by resorting to claiming to be more educated and intelligent than the rest of the world. I’d give you the link where I posted this prediction not 2 hours ago but that would be just plain silly. Your insecurity shows itself once again. And your small time education at a no-name college in podunk Michigan does not a scholar make. Have a nice night anyway.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 13 2010

      There is apparently a history here with Michelle from Madison. I was completely in the dark about this as I don’t have much of an opportunity to follow the conversations on other blogs – I’d like to have the time to do that, but it’s enough for me to keep up with my little blog here.

      Michelle from Madison either stop the sniping at others, or I will have to take the drastic step to ban you.

      I don’t want to do that, but I cannot have my friends disrespected here. There is no reason to try to humiliate anyone, and certainly not on my site. I won’t allow it.

      So, Michelle, I would implore you to look at your writings here and ask yourself – examine why – you do this, and then chose to stop it. Okay?

      Thank you.

      Reply
  22. lilyolily
    May 13 2010

    Sorry Andrea to just puke all over your really good blog. My advice would be to just not go through what countless other blogs have gone through with this guy. It’s not worth it and no amount of pleading or being nice will stop it.

    If you are still wondering about this I can give you more info if you email me. It’s all public info out there on the nets and I’m sure you could figure it out yourself if you’re inclined to do that. And yes, it’s a HE in his late 20’s and he really has no interest in these cases other than it provides him with an opportunity to eventually get around to his real agenda which is to bash Nancy Grace in the most unbelievable ways. I’m no big fan of Nancy’s but this guy is wacko.

    I look forward to your next posts!!

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 13 2010

      HI Lilly,

      Oh my. Yes, I have been getting insight now from friends about past issues. I’ll monitor this very closely and if it continues, I’ll do my best to stop it.

      Regardless, the best thing to come of it is that you are visiting and writing here!!! That’s a nice trade-off for me!

      Thanks Lily!

      Reply
  23. Ideas
    May 13 2010

    I’m hoping all of us bloggers all don’t end up in the same nursing home together. It’s one thing to blog, another to see each other every day in the lounge over puzzle pieces.

    Reply
  24. luv4u
    May 13 2010

    Do you think the killer stops killiing and maiming on the inside of the prison fence? He/She is still a threat to the people who have to deal with them. If my dog had done the same thing to a little child would you have a problem putting him down?

    Reply
  25. Venice
    May 13 2010

    Poor michelle…..he must have got his ass kicked on the ice again.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 13 2010

      Hi Venice!

      I think it got kicked by a few very smart people here last night. 🙂

      Reply
  26. Andrea
    May 13 2010

    Hi Luv4u,
    No I think a killer always has a predilection to kill and new killers are created every day. I think the wicked will be wicked because they cannot help themselves and they don’t care.

    I understand that you want to protect the innocent from a killer, but did you know that every person on the face of this earth is capable of murder? Just because someone is capable or murder or has murdered doesn’t also imply that they are serial murderers. Most murders are acts of passion, one-time occurrences.

    If your dog harmed, maimed or killed a child, I would first assume your dog has an illness and would suggest you look for a solution to ensure the dog does not repeat the behavior. If the law requires the dog must be put down, so be it.

    Dogs do not reason and generally their behavior is not premeditated, cruel, or calculated.

    Reply
  27. luv4u
    May 13 2010

    I have always known given the right circumstances any can kill. It’s the really depraved murderers that I have to question the waste of oxygen. Have you worked with these individuals (lifers) day in day out? Have you seen them at their worst?

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 13 2010

      I personally have not worked with them but 3 members of my family are in law enforcement (one is a retired Lieutenant from the Miami Dade County Corrections) and he saw it close up; he saw the grit and the grime and the depravity and has told me many horrible stories. He does not support the death penalty.

      Another in my family works as a defense attorney to ensure criminals are provided a fair hearing; another in my family is government law enforcement.

      I took the opposite route from my siblings, I followed the arts. But, my liberal arts education gave me an appreciation for life itself and the more I lived the more I learned that I am here on this earth to love others, forgive, and appreciate life.

      I know about the evil hearts out there. I am not afraid of them, I am more afraid of getting shot at in my car by a crazy road warrior!!

      Reply
  28. luv4u
    May 13 2010

    I have always known given the right circumstances anyone can kill. It’s the really depraved murderers that I have to question the waste of oxygen. Have you worked with these individuals (lifers) day in day out? Have you seen them at their worst?

    Reply
  29. luv4u
    May 13 2010

    Dade Co my old stomping grounds, I do understand. Case in point: Danny Rolling-what would he have become after doing a life sentence? Ted Bundy- same question. He was smart, good looking, educated but had that small problem with raping and murdering. Eileen Wuornous-same question. I know for sure the recidivism rate for them is nil.
    County Jails keep these individuals for shorter periods of time, once adjudicated guilty and sent off to state prison it is forever. While these individuals are throwing feces at you and threatening to kill you and rape your dead body, you wonder why they are sitting here at all. I do respect all of your opinions and it is nice to know that there are people with a cause and am glad to hear that zest for life lives on. I do believe that a person should have the best possible defense. Nice sharing thoughts with you. Thanks for the response.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 14 2010

      Hi Luv4u,

      It was very nice sharing thoughts with you, too.

      Yes, how you describe the prison is quite true… They are depraved landscapes, that’s for darn sure.

      LOL..Lately the stomping in Dade county has been hot as can be! It’s been getting up to the nineties lately….We had a really cold winter, like the rest of the country, of course our winters are heaven!

      Thanks so much for sharing here… 🙂

      Reply
  30. auntdeedee
    May 13 2010

    Something puzzles me~

    I hear this often as if to make hypocrits out of those who are against abortion but for the death penalty-how can that be? I answered that in my above comment. But, this puzzles me, how can one be pro-abortion but against the DP? Is that not being a hypocrit, too? IDK~

    No, I haven’t heard that argument here in this thread so please don’t misunderstand, TY!

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 14 2010

      Hi Dee… I know, that comes up a lot in the news, too. Some people will fight to the death to save a fetus, and will think nothing of using the death penalty.

      I do not like abortion, but I am pro choice…..To me, it’s a matter of the woman’s own body and the government coming in between a woman an her doctor. That troubles me.

      And if a woman chooses to end her pregnancy, she shouldn’t be treated like a criminal who’s rights are taken away just because she’s a woman and pregnant.

      Now, I could never myself (morally) have an abortion, but that would be my choice to make. I think adoption is a great decision, but that shouldn’t be the only alternative, ultimately…. especially if the woman’s life is in danger, no one should come between the woman and her doctor and yet it is happening all over this country… women are loosing their rights and its scary…

      My feelings about the juxtaposition of the death penalty? This may sound harsh, but in essence, it ultimately turns other people into killers. This is not to say that the people who are involved in the death penalty process are criminals – not at all – but i think it puts them in a terribly precarious position that no mortal should be in….

      Reply
  31. Venice
    May 14 2010

    dang….that dude Jasen is ONE SICK PUPPY! LOL!!!!!! Have a CASEY KILLER weekend everybody!

    Continue on Jasen boy……fight with a monitor. LOL….

    Reply
  32. Venice
    May 14 2010

    Real men have jobs, and don’t troll. LOL….Nancy Grace ROCKS!

    Reply
  33. Sierra
    May 14 2010

    Oh my god, who wants to read all that stupid crap??? Man, what a pathetic person. What’s the matter there michelle….have too much anger inside due to a troubled life? Who gives a flying crap about anything you post?? PATHETIC!

    Reply
  34. amy
    May 14 2010

    he fights with non-owners of blogs so he won’t get banned. he is seriously disturbed.

    Reply
    • Andrea
      May 15 2010

      Hi Amy, Sierra, Venice… you all seem to know the history; I was unaware of any of it but will monitor the situation closely….

      have a great weekend! 🙂

      Reply

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